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10 June 2008 @ 12:59 pm
Eberron in 4E: What do you want to know?  
I'm talking with WotC to find out exactly what I'm allowed to say about 4E Eberron. It's tricky, because I want to make sure you have what you need to get a new campaign off of the ground... but at the same time, I can't reveal EVERYTHING that's coming out in the 2009 books because, well, they aren't coming out until 2009.

What's likely is that we'll have a compromise: I'll be able to tell you, for example, the BASIC role of the Eladrin in the world, but you may have to wait for the deeper details of the story that we've built up around them.

With that in mind, however, what I'd like to know is what you're most desperate to know about. There are things you simply aren't going to get: Psionics aren't out at the moment, and there's simply no way I can give them to you. So what I want to know are the things you feel you CANNOT play Eberron without knowing... and to some degree, why. For example, I'm just playing without kalashtar PCs for the moment. They're in the world; people can encounter kalashtar NPCs, and I just fudge their abilities. But with so many possibilities to choose from, it hasn't proven an insurmountable obstacle to play without kalashtar. If it is for you, then you're probably out of luck, because that's one I can't provide on my own.

Anyhow, let me know what's holding you back, and perhaps I'll be able to address the issues in future posts.
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( 65 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]lawofthetwosix on June 10th, 2008 07:42 pm (UTC)
Thanks for the heads-up, Keith.

In the broadest possible terms, could we find out where the new PHB races fit in Eberron, both in Khorvaire and beyond?

Also, any hints about changes to the cosmology? The Dungeon article regarding KotS mentioned Dolurrh and Mabar as part of the Shadowfell, for example.
Arthur[info]brooklynknight on June 10th, 2008 08:06 pm (UTC)
MINOR SPOILER ALERT MINOR SPOILER ALERT!!!!





















The Dragonborn and Eladrin are introduced in the latest Eberron Hardcover. The Dragonborn, quite obviously, are from Arogonossen and the Eledrin appear to live around Manifest Zones to the Fey plane in the Eldeen Reaches.
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on June 10th, 2008 08:09 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]gloomforge on June 10th, 2008 08:13 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]brooklynknight on June 10th, 2008 08:16 pm (UTC) (Expand)
just a guy made of dots and lines: rust[info]crs on June 10th, 2008 07:45 pm (UTC)
In some ways I expect the nature of the magic system to work well with Eberron. NPCs like the Magewright might be implemented purely in ritual-space, without any powers at all...

Dragonmarks - additional powers from a feat, paragon path, substitution powers, or... um... or what?

The Warforged Juggernaut prestige class must be losing a lot of the immunities it confers, right? If it exists in the game at all... Maybe it would be an Epic Destiny?

Edited at 2008-06-10 07:52 pm (UTC)
Brendan[info]rantmo on June 10th, 2008 07:56 pm (UTC)
The Wizards article about the Warforged has the Juggernaut as a Paragon Path. It's interesting but very different than it used to be.
Valkyriepilot[info]valkyriepilot on June 10th, 2008 07:46 pm (UTC)
As my group wants to switch to 4E at the end of June the most important stuff for me would be some basics for Eladrin & Dragonborn in Eberron background fluff. Especially Dragonborn as i will most likely have two of them in the upcoming campaign.

And Artificer would be nice but i think i won't see anything playable this year. As this class was always a favorite in my group.
Same goes for Dragonmark feats.

I hope you can understand my rusty swiss school english.
Beemer: chibi dr t[info]dr_tectonic on June 10th, 2008 07:57 pm (UTC)
Artificers are the obvious big one, given how drastically magic items have changed.

There were a few subject (inquisitives, house politics, dragonmarks, action points, etc.) that kind of had their own little mini-systems in the Eberron rules. I'd be interested in hearing about what add-ons will be coming in Eb-4e, and conversely, what things will now fit well into the core rules. (Dragonmarks, for example, seem like they'll probably be very straightforward in 4e, maybe similar to the multiclass feats.)
Kensan Oni[info]kensan_oni on June 10th, 2008 08:00 pm (UTC)
Random things that will be important to me at some point or another.

1)Dragonmarked - Will they be getting new power sets, maybe?

2) Will the Nations be getting their own fighting styles?

3) Will we see the return of the Artificer?

4) Will any of the Secrets of (Whatever) be incorporated into the new campaign setting?

5) Will any of the previous important people be getting level bumps?

6) Will the new maps be to the proper scale? I remember something about scales being different.

7) Will we be getting the setting specific lizard folk back?

8) Will we see the return of the dwarven constructs in MM2 in the ECS4E?

..... okay, that's should do for now.
Kensan Oni[info]kensan_oni on June 10th, 2008 08:16 pm (UTC)
In fact, I probably don't even need ALL this information at all....

... so feel free to ignore it
(no subject) - [info]rechan on June 10th, 2008 10:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]kensan_oni on June 10th, 2008 10:41 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]rechan on June 11th, 2008 01:47 am (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]rechan on June 10th, 2008 10:11 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Rick Jones: dice[info]rickj on June 10th, 2008 08:10 pm (UTC)
The think I could most use is how to handle Dragonmarks and Changelings. Those two (and Warforged) were really the only things that my players would want their hands on. Everything else I can just fudge, but powers the players get need closer scrutiny.
bungo_underhill: DICE!!![info]bungo_underhill on June 10th, 2008 08:41 pm (UTC)
Changelings are given player race characterists in the back of the MM
(no subject) - [info]ronin_kakuhito on June 10th, 2008 11:21 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]alphaant on June 10th, 2008 11:54 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - (Anonymous) on June 10th, 2008 11:55 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]bungo_underhill on June 11th, 2008 07:01 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on June 10th, 2008 08:11 pm (UTC)
I would like some kind of basic rule for Dragonmarks so that I can include those as characters for my party. These might be rather easy to come up with on their own, but I have not had that much a chance to page my way through the brand new books.
(Deleted comment)
Keith Baker[info]gloomforge on June 10th, 2008 11:27 pm (UTC)
Is that YOUR mark of passage, randonu? If so, send a picture to Keith@bossythecow.com so we can add it to our dragonmark gallery!

http://www.bossythecow.com/tattoos.htm
[info]drothgery on June 10th, 2008 08:35 pm (UTC)
How much interaction is there between the 4e Eberron books team and the people working on the 4e Player's Handbook 2? I'm basically asking because a lot of my speculation about what's going to be in PH2 is driven by 'what needs to be there for Eberron, but is general enough to be in mainline book rather than a setting book?'.
bungo_underhill[info]bungo_underhill on June 10th, 2008 08:37 pm (UTC)
I think I'd like to know what changes if any there are to Eberron Gnomes. 4th Ed Gnomes are very different to third Ed ones and it would seem to Zilargo ones.

It would also be interesting to know how the cosmology fits with the 4th edition vision of the planes.
(Anonymous) on June 10th, 2008 08:52 pm (UTC)
In order of priority, for me:

1. What is the role of eladrin in the world? (heh)

2. What is the role of tiefling in the world?

3. Is the mark of finding still belonging to half-orcs?

4. Are Aereni elves still linked to Death, or they are related to something like... fey?

5. Are the daelkyr still the rulers of Xoriat?

6. Since many previous aberrations like Chokers are natural creatures now, are they still linked to Xoriat?

Surely I can find 100+ questions, but that's the ones I can think about now.
needsbalance[info]needsbalance on June 10th, 2008 08:57 pm (UTC)
In answer to #3, the Mark belonged to both humans and half-orcs, so while it may or may not still be half-orc, PCs could easily use it. Also, I suspect the half-orc in PH2.

Do we know a release date on 4E-ECS?
(no subject) - [info]kesh on June 10th, 2008 09:08 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]needsbalance on June 11th, 2008 05:05 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(Anonymous) on June 10th, 2008 09:04 pm (UTC)
Must haves for Eberron
Keith,

Our current Eberron campaign has an Artificier, a Warforged, and a Dragonmarked heir. Our campaign needs to know they work under 4E. I understand that the Artificier is going to be previewed shortly. The Warforged probably isn't difficult for us to figure it out on our own. Some sort of essay on converting 3rd to 4th, although an exact conversion probably isn't possible.

Dragonmarks are a wholly different matter. It would seem to me that Least and Lesser marks are available in Heroic, Greater in Paragon, and Siberys in Epic tier. Dragonshards and their value needs a little work.

How new core D&D races fit into Eberron is important, for new people - for us in existing campaigns, not so much.
Keith Baker[info]gloomforge on June 10th, 2008 09:20 pm (UTC)
Re: Must haves for Eberron
Our current Eberron campaign has an Artificier, a Warforged, and a Dragonmarked heir.

While I firmly believe that you can start a 4E Eberron campaign - as shown by the fact that I'm running two and playing in one - I simply can't promise that you'll be able to maintain your current campaign at this point in time. A good example of this is kalashtar. One of my favorite PCs (of my own) is a kalashtar wilder. At this point in time, with no kalashtar and no psionics, I simply can't play that character in 4E, and I, Keith, am not going to be able to provide you with all of the systems it would take to make that possible. That doesn't mean the kalashtar are gone from the world; it's easy enough to fudge a kalashtar NPC. But you can't currently make a kalashtar psion as a PC, and I'm not going to be able to help with that.

With Dragonmarks, it is possible that we will be able to provide a starting point, such as least marks. However, even there, the issue is that dragonmarks are undergoing a LOT of scrutiny. We want to keep the basic core idea of the dragonmarks, and the houses themselves aren't going to change. But we want to make sure that the marks are both balanced, actively useful (as many people felt that most marks weren't especially useful in the past), and also to consider the role of rituals, focus items, paragon paths, and the like on dragonmarks. We don't have a final version of dragonmarks WE all agree on yet; while it may be possible to get a foundation to work with in the near future, you're not going to get enough information (from me, at least) to recreate an Heir of Siberys or a character with a greater mark. I certainly think it's something a clever DM can fudge, and I'm sure you'll see threads full of ideas - but I'm not going to be able to give you an official version, because among other things, it's still going through serious R&D.

So again, I may be able to give you a starting point for dragonmarks, but I don't want to set expectations too high. I have been running an Eberron campaign, but I've been doing it without artificers, kalashtar PCs, or Lesser+ dragonmarks (mainly by rebooting the campaign and having everyone create new characters). If you need these things to use the setting, you may need to wait until 2009 (or keep using 3.5).

(no subject) - [info]operations on June 10th, 2008 09:45 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]gloomforge on June 10th, 2008 09:53 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]operations on June 10th, 2008 10:10 pm (UTC) (Expand)
Kesh[info]kesh on June 10th, 2008 09:06 pm (UTC)
Dragonmarks, though I'm sure they're easily handled through feat Powers and a Paragon path.

Elves/Eladrin: which one maps to Aerenal vs. Valenar?

A brief outline on where the tieflings and dragonborn fit into the setting. Personally, I'm fine if they're just plopped into the setting with a handwave "They were always here!" explanation, but I'm sure others would prefer another option.
CJ Thrasher[info]alphaant on June 11th, 2008 12:03 am (UTC)
I think that Aerenal seems more appropriate for Eladrin, but that's just me. They seem to be more arcane whereas the Valenar seem to be more martial, which fits the Eladrin/Elf themes pretty well. I'm sure that people could argue the opposite.

I might alter the nature of the Feywild to be more appropriate to the setting, though.
[info]trayburn on June 10th, 2008 09:17 pm (UTC)
What's holding me back?

1 - Artificers, there is a strong love through several players in the group I host for this class and how they are going to be handled will be key to playing.

2 - Dragonmarks, I agree with those who say they'll likely work as Feat powers like Channeled Divinity, but having some guidance here would be very nice. In this area I most want to know if the Lesser and Greater Dragonmarks are going to be Paragon & Epic tier feats respectively. If so, that's a fairly major change, but would seem the logical extension of the tiered system.

Tim Rayburn, Host of Radio Free Hommlet (http://hommlet.com)
mmaranda[info]mmaranda on June 10th, 2008 09:19 pm (UTC)
Release quarter
In what quarter (or better yet what month) will the Eberon CS Book be released?

How has the new edition affected Eberon?

With the 4E action point being what it is will the smaller scale die bumps still be around in another form?
Keith Baker[info]gloomforge on June 10th, 2008 09:42 pm (UTC)
Just as a quick note, it sounds like it's confirmed that there will be a working version of the artificer presented in next month's Dragon - so you've got a month to wait there, but it's not a matter of waiting until 2009. More information to come as I get it confirmed.
Quill[info]quill18 on June 10th, 2008 10:00 pm (UTC)
I feel that I can play Eberron right now perfectly fine.

I cannot, however, continue my current campaign. The party is level 10 and includes:

1) Warforged Druid (Warforged is fine, Druid is not)
2) Kalashtar Psion (Kalashtar might be fudgeable, Psion is not)
3) Human Artificer (Looking forward to next month's dragon)
4) Changeling Scout/Wizard (Playable as is.)

We're putting our 3.5 campaign on hiatus tonight with a big "season finale" adventure. We're going to run KotS next and then make a decision on how to proceed.
(Anonymous) on June 10th, 2008 10:16 pm (UTC)
Things I'd like to know
Eladrin is a thing that a lot of my friends have been discussing when it comes to Eberron, as well as the place of the tieflings and dragonborn. Personally, I always made tieflings look like tiger-men in my games, but I guess thats gone now.
Also, are the warlords of Karrnath still going to be known by that name?
And how is the setting going to change to account for higher levels, all the way to 30? Are we going to see a level 30 Lord of Blades?
And the last thing I would ask/suggest is the possibility of new eberron specific warlock pacts such as an Undeath pact for Karrn necromancers.

-Tysen
Puyallup, WA
Rechan[info]rechan on June 10th, 2008 10:21 pm (UTC)
Re: Things I'd like to know
Are we going to see a level 30 Lord of Blades?

Given how the LoB was only 12th level in a 20 level scheme, I don't see him getting an 18 level bump.

And the last thing I would ask/suggest is the possibility of new eberron specific warlock pacts such as an Undeath pact for Karrn necromancers.

An "Ancestral" pact would be real nice.
(no subject) - [info]wolfsamurai on June 10th, 2008 10:46 pm (UTC) (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]davethebrave on June 11th, 2008 02:52 am (UTC) (Expand)
Rechan[info]rechan on June 10th, 2008 10:18 pm (UTC)
1) I'm curious what the Power Source of the artificer is, and its role. Yes, I'm asking specifics; sorry. :)

2) Back when 4e was announced, I asked what were your thoughts on Tieflings. You said that one option was having Tieflings tied to the various planes, when someone is born in a manifest zone/when a plane is contenious (or whatever that word is), they are a tief.

You still sticking with that one? And, how're you going to handle that, if you do?

3) Did you see the "Keep on the Shadowfell" Eberron article? If so, what did you think of how the Dolgrims and Dolgaunts were executed there?

4) If there are no "basic elementals", then what is bound to the airships/lightning rails/galleons?
(Anonymous) on June 10th, 2008 10:31 pm (UTC)
Eberron in 4E: What do you want to know?
The primary concern is, of course, the Tieflings, The Eladrin, and The Dragonborn.

Gamers everywhere are starting their 4th Edition campaigns assuming that The Dragonborn have replaced the Seren Barbarrians on the shores of Argonessen, and the Eladrin are the Aerenal Elves. The rest of us are hanging in limbo, trying to keep our games on track with the general ideas that will be present in the 4E ECS without having to wait until 2009 to start a 4E Eberron campaign.

Dragonmarks.
Dragonmarks will have further supplementing feats and items in the ECS, even Paragon Paths or Epic Destinies, but in order to have a flavor that falls into line with the new(ish) shape of Eberron, it is important for the player base to know how Dragonmarks function in the world.

The nature of The Shadowfell, The Feywild, The Astral Sea, and The Elemental Chaos.
Knowing even the basic ways these core rulebook planar concepts interact with our current understanding of Eberron's Planes will help us shape and develop our games, and help us feel more like we are playing 4th Edition while we are playing Eberron.

Thanks Keith.


Herogoeth
Keith Baker[info]gloomforge on June 10th, 2008 10:47 pm (UTC)
Re: Eberron in 4E: What do you want to know?
Gamers everywhere are starting their 4th Edition campaigns assuming that The Dragonborn have replaced the Seren Barbarrians on the shores of Argonessen, and the Eladrin are the Aerenal Elves.

Neither of which will be the canon role of these races in the world.

I'll see if I can post something a little more helpful on the matter tomorrow.
Keith Baker[info]gloomforge on June 10th, 2008 11:28 pm (UTC)
As a note, there's lots of good questions here. I'm waiting to try to answer a lot of them in a single post instead of hitting them one at a time and scattered through the comments.
(Anonymous) on June 10th, 2008 11:42 pm (UTC)
Are the gatekeepers still going to be orcs and half-orcs? (yeah, it doesn't seem a critical question, but it's critical to my campaign)
[info]verdanabold.wordpress.com on June 10th, 2008 11:54 pm (UTC)
What I'm curious about...
I'm sure I could come up with way more if

1. Along with everyone else, an explanation of elf/eladrin and how they fit into the valenar/aerenal factions.
2. When all is said and done, how likely is it that changelings will be pure doppelgangers as they are now?
3. Will we see at least a general kalashtar write-up at some point soon? (I'd be happy if it gets superseded later but something for now would be nice)
4. Will there be major changes to the cosmology and/or manifest zones based on some of the concepts in 4e (feywild for example)?

All in all, I'm very happy with 4e. My group is going to start playing our converted characters tomorrow night. It seems like it will actually be better than 3.5 at capturing the pulp elements of Eberron.
Mort_Q: No Cake[info]mort_q on June 11th, 2008 12:49 am (UTC)
What can you tell me about the Deathless?
Mort_Q[info]mort_q on June 11th, 2008 01:13 am (UTC)
... and Daelkyr Half-breeds and symbionts.
[info]darktouch on June 11th, 2008 01:09 am (UTC)
Here's my silly little question:
4E for the most part has divorced the mechanics from the setting. One of the few places where this is less the truth is in the Monster origin section where each of the origins (aberrant/elemental/fey/immortal/natural/shadow) meshes with one of the the planes (Far Realm/Elemental Chaos/Feywild/Astral Sea/The World/ShadowFell). With Eberron having a significantly different planar setup will this simply get dropped? I know the Keep on the Shadowfell expansion indicates that both Dolurrh and Mabar are part of the Shadowfell. Will the other planes be 'lumped' like this or is this just a temporary fix?

Thanks.
Dave the Brave[info]davethebrave on June 11th, 2008 02:53 am (UTC)
Ditto to this.
( 65 comments — Leave a comment )
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