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08 June 2008 @ 12:17 pm
4E Warforged and Eberron  
In my previous post, I made some general observations about the warforged as presented in 4th Edition D&D. I just wanted to clarify a few points about how I intend to use these 4E warforged in my Eberron campaign, and a few other issues I've seen come up.

Before going any farther, you should download the "Playing Warforged" article from http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080606b . Chris Sims has done an excellent job expanding on the material in the 4E MM, and the first step to using the warforged in Eberron is to use THESE warforged. Key elements are the existence of attached armor and the fact that these warforged do not need to sleep. It even includes the option of having light blades sheathed in your forearms for Indigo fans!

So, with that in mind, let's start with armor. Under 4E rules, it is possible for warforged to wear armor. However, Sims' article also presents the concept of attached armor - armor bonded to the warforged that cannot be removed against its wishes. As it is fitted directly to the warforged, it is also lighter than normal armor.

In my campaign, this is going to be the natural state of warforged in Eberron. A warforged emerges from the creation forged with attached armor already in place as befits its intended purpose; light armor for the scout, heavy armor for the infantry soldier. For the warforged, this armor is more than just a piece of equipment; it is a part of its body, something that has been there since it was "born". Comparing it to a human, the armor is more like skin than clothing; when it is removed, the warforged doesn't simply feel naked, he feels as though something is fundamentally wrong. So the warforged poet who has thrown away his sword likely still has his armor attached, because he doesn't see the armor as a tool of war; he sees it as a part of his body. He might take it off temporarily as part of an upgrade, but he'll be very uncomfortable in the interim.

Tied to this, I will be saying that while attached warforged armor may have statistics that make it mechanically identical to quivalent armor worn by humans, it will often be completely different in appearance and composition. For example, in 4E, the default armor for a fighter is scale mail. Most warforged are, essentially, fighters. But in my campaign, the default plating of a warforged fighter will be just that - plating, not overlapping scales. Mechanically it's identical to scale armor - but from a visual standpoint it's nothing like it.

This is even more important when dealing with the light armors - hide and leather. In my game, most lightly armored warforged will still be the mithral-alloyed folks we've seen in the past. Yes, that mithral is alloyed to the degree that it's not fantastically valuable on its own. But it's still a matter of thin alloy plates and a subtle construction allowing for swift motion. Mechanically speaking, Indigo from The Dreaming Dark may have attached +3 sylvan leather - but it takes the form of mithral plating. Likewise, Pierce may have "Hide" armor - but it's not made of hide. So, the key point: attached armor may behave like other forms of armor, but that doesn't mean that it has to LOOK the same.

The next point that's come up relating to this: what do warforged look like when they take off their armor? The article holds the answer. "Warforged are bulky humanoids fashioned of plates of metal and stone. Supported by a skeleton of similar material and a muscular system of leathery, woody fiber bundles..." While I'd challenge the word "bulky" as depending on the purpose of the warforged, the key point holds - armor or no armor, the warforged still have basic plating. Without additional armor, this plating offers limited protection; it leaves many vulnerable points revealed, and isn't exceptionally solid. But essentially, a naked warforged just looks like a smaller warforged - not like a little wooden man or anything like that.

The article also states that warforged do not sleep, but must spend 4 hours refraining from "strenuous activity". FOr me, the key word there is "strenuous". In The Dreaming Dark, Pierce walks the deck of a ship while his allies sleep. Likewise, I can see the warforged actually using this time to perform physical repairs on his own body; remember, the fact that Craft isn't reflected by a skill doesn't mean that characters are incapable of performing such actions, just that it's not tracked mechanically. To me, the fact that warforged recover fully after a rest may actually reflect active work on the part of the warforged. So, they don't sleep, and they can't perform heavy labor during this period - but in my opinion, they can engage in low-stress activities.

Those are the main things I wanted to touch on, but I do want to clarify another point I've seen come up. Some people have pointed out that because warforged can always choose to take 10 on death saves, that eventually they will return from being dropped below zero hit points - because sooner or later, they will roll a 20 on a death save and be able to spend a healing surge (and even NPCs have a healing surge, though as a general rule they cannot spend it voluntarily). As such, what came up was the concept that you should never find a warforged body on the battlefield - because after about two minutes it would get up again. The flaw in this logic is that NPCs don't make death saves, as described on page 295 of the 4E PHB. The death save mechanic is there for PCs, who may heroically overcome their injuries and rise again. As a rule, when NPCs go down, they stay down. Now, personally, I like the idea of preserving the concept of auto-stabilization by saying that when a warforged is "killed", it won't actually die unless you go back and finish the job - that a warforged dropped to 0 hit points is inert, but salvageable. However, it still won't recover from that "dead" state on its own. So you CAN find the warforged that's been lying abandoned on the battlefield for 20 years, waiting for someone to restore it.

Anyhow, enough with the warforged - next week I'll talk about more general 4E/Eberron issues.
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( 21 comments — Leave a comment )
(Anonymous) on June 8th, 2008 09:24 pm (UTC)
The image I get when you describe "naked" warforged is almost like Iron Man. In the comics, he's got a thin, light weight undersuit (the gold part) which attaches to the heavier armored parts (the red bits).

I can see "naked" warforged having chest plates with bolt holes where their breastplates attach, and various hooks, clasps, and fasteners where their arm and leg armors attach.

They look tasty.

--G
Keith Baker[info]gloomforge on June 8th, 2008 09:35 pm (UTC)
In the comics, he's got a thin, light weight undersuit (the gold part) which attaches to the heavier armored parts (the red bits).

Yup, that's basically what I'm seeing. They've still got metal beneath the armor, just less of it and not enough to provide significant protection.

I can see "naked" warforged having chest plates with bolt holes where their breastplates attach...

The form the fastenings take is a good question. Per the article, attached components simply cannot be removed if the warforged is conscious and chooses to resist - suggesting that some level of magic is involved, as opposed to simple hooks and bolts. This is why I'm saying that they feel that the armor is a part of them - because it's more than just something they wear, it is something that bonds to them. This is also reflected by the COmponent Modification feat, which allows you to get more out of your Warforged Resolve based on the number of components you've got attached - again, to me reflecting the fact that the components become an extension of you.

Goobermunch[info]goobermunch on June 8th, 2008 11:58 pm (UTC)
That was me, by the way . . ..

--G
(Anonymous) on March 2nd, 2009 06:05 am (UTC)
It isn't exactly 'as intended' I think, but, well my group runs a rather easy going campaign, where you're free to do somewhat silly things.

I actually used the 4e Warforged rules to make Iron Man.

Well, the suit as a seperate entity. And he was, in fact, 'born' fully equipped, and has yet to actually remove any armor, except for his helmet which he removed at the request of the Paladin at one point. (They thought it was just a guy in a suit).

That said, when Eberron comes out for real, I might see about launching a new campaign.
Rechan[info]rechan on June 8th, 2008 09:38 pm (UTC)
I am forced to ask: when a warforged levels up, and he finds some magic armor... what happens next?

Does the Warforged have to take said magical armor and get it remade to fit attached armor schematics? I.e. if he finds +3 Bloodcut Armor on a Knight of the Emerald Claw commander, what happens?

Finally, I wonder what happens to Warforged Wizards. What does attached Cloth armor-equivalent look like? Tin?

Also, Warforged are made of leather, wood and stone. I imagine light armors might just be more leather and wood (I.e. like the Darkwood body feat). Godplate may look like marble, granite, or volcanic rock (going off the stone implemented in their construction).

Now, personally, I like the idea of preserving the concept of auto-stabilization by saying that when a warforged is "killed", it won't actually die unless you go back and finish the job - that a warforged dropped to 0 hit points is inert, but salvageable. However, it still won't recover from that "dead" state on its own. So you CAN find the warforged that's been lying abandoned on the battlefield for 20 years, waiting for someone to restore it.

Aye; I always liked the idea of inert warforged bodies you had to recover, or finding an ancient one on a battlefield you could revive as a friend.

Comparing it to a human, the armor is more like skin than clothing; when it is removed, the warforged doesn't simply feel naked, he feels as though something is fundamentally wrong.

I can relate to this. I have a glass eye. When the eye is removed, there's nothing holding the socket open; the eyelid is practically forced shut, and it just feels weird and uncomfortable. A warforged might feel similar. If anything, the lack of weight (and adjusting their posture to accommodate that) would be noticeable.
CJ Thrasher[info]alphaant on June 8th, 2008 10:02 pm (UTC)
Does the Warforged have to take said magical armor and get it remade to fit attached armor schematics? I.e. if he finds +3 Bloodcut Armor on a Knight of the Emerald Claw commander, what happens?

I'd be inclined to say that using the "Enchant Item" ritual could be used to make armor "bondable" by warforged in the same way that it's used to resize armor.
Keith Baker[info]gloomforge on June 8th, 2008 10:16 pm (UTC)
I am forced to ask: when a warforged levels up, and he finds some magic armor... what happens next?

That's up to you and the DM. A few simple answers:

* He puts on the magic armor. I've said that the warforged are most comfortable in their attached armor; not that it is the only thing they can wear.

* You let him use the Enchant Item ritual to "resize" the armor to attachable armor, which is what I'll personally do. If it can allow a goblin to wear armor mad for a human, I don't see why the same process can't be used to make it work for a warforged.

* Even if you decide not to allow such resizing, the warforged can still get the party wizard to use Enchant Item to enchant his component armor, it'll just be a few levels down from what he might find.

Finally, I wonder what happens to Warforged Wizards. What does attached Cloth armor-equivalent look like? Tin?

If you bother with attached cloth, I'd say that it's a few pieces that are more decorative than functional - a pectoral plate with arcane symbols, for example - and potentially with actual cloth attached. I'm not saying that warforged attached armor CAN'T be made from the same materials as unattached armor; I'm saying that in my campaign, it doesn't HAVE to be - as long as the mechanics are the same. By the same token, I gave a Valenar ranger in my game a set of light Tairnadal chainmail that I'm saying is mechanically the same as "hide". Essentially, the point is that I consider the MECHANICS of the armor categories to be the critical thing that must be followed - the cosmetic details are open to negotiation.

Jonathan Drain[info]jdigital on June 9th, 2008 03:50 pm (UTC)
I like the idea of 'resizing' armour to fit a warforged. Although his armour is a much greater part of his identity than a human's, I can imagine a warforged soldier accepting an upgrade to heavier outfit.

I'm thinking of Fullmetal Alchemist, where the main character can transmute his mechanical arm into a blade, or repair his arm by transmuting pieces of scrap metal. A similar sort of thing might work for a warforged.
(Anonymous) on June 10th, 2008 06:52 pm (UTC)
Personally, I'd allow the "Enchant Item" to resize the item, but I'd describe it as the caster actually transferring the enchantment over to his existing plating. Fits better with the "armor as skin" concept, I think.
Keith Baker[info]gloomforge on June 10th, 2008 07:00 pm (UTC)
Which is what I suggested in the post immediately preceeding this one, where I presented the "Armored Body" feat. If the armor IS skin, then yes, transferring the enchantment makes sense. If, instead, it's the hermit crab - the warforged THINKS of it like skin, but it is possible for it to be removed - then it makes more sense to me to resize it, especially since resizing is something that's clearly established as part of the ritual. This also goes along with the idea that there may be more to magic armor than merely enchantment - that the +5 Dhakaani Plate you find in Rhukaan Draal isn't just enchanted, but also made with Dhakaani alloys humans have never discovered, and worked with long-forgotten techniques. The warforged who has this adapted to his form will be an interesting sight unlike any modern warforged, as his attached armor is nonetheless clearly of Dhakaani design.

So yes, if you're doing the Armored Body approach, the transfered enchantment is the way to go. But personally, I think I'll gowith the hermit crab model. Warforged born with armor attached are very uncomfortable without it; they think of it as their skin. But it's possible for them to shift to a new shell if there's cause.
Arcane Geek: leonal[info]nviiibrown on June 9th, 2008 01:12 am (UTC)
I'm getting a distinct hermit crab image of the leveling warforged removing his attached armor and scuttling as quickly as possible to his newer, better set of armor.
(Anonymous) on June 9th, 2008 06:19 am (UTC)
Warforged Zoidberg!!!!
Jonathan Drain[info]jdigital on June 9th, 2008 03:36 pm (UTC)
I don't think it's too much of a stretch to "invent" new armours for the warforged which equate to existing armour in terms of cost and proficiency. I've done odd things like this before - a character who attributes his armour to luck, or a swordsman who carries no shield but benefits from an equatable AC bonus by "parrying".
mhacdebhandia[info]mhacdebhandia on June 12th, 2008 07:56 pm (UTC)
The Player's Handbook does already talk about the fact that the 100 gold pieces' worth of equipment a character starts out with is an abstraction. The warforged character's built-in armour is part of that - where a human fighter might have inherited her gear from her mother, a warforged fighter was simply constructed with the armour plating a part of its being.

What did you think of the statement that most warforged choose to remain genderless?
(Anonymous) on June 18th, 2008 01:01 am (UTC)
Something that's troubling me with regard to armor as an attached component...

However the warforged comes into possession of the attached armor, whether it be part of him at the moment of his creation and swappable from then on, or if he finds/buys it later and adds it to his body as a component, which of the warforged's component slots would attached armor occupy?

Is it assumed that attached armor actually occupies no specific slot at all -- it's simply there, quietly doing its job of upgrading AC at all times? This means, of course, that all component slots are available for other items.

Or, if it must occupy a component slot, would it be sufficient to say that the armor occupies the chest or back slot alone, despite the fact that it provides the AC bonus bodywide? The downside to this approach is that the chosen slot thus becomes unavailable for use with another attached or embedded component, magical or otherwise.)

I'm leaning toward the first approach, if only because it echoes the spirit of the "Magic Items" section of the PHB, (essentially the precursor or equivalent of component slots for all non-warforged characters). The magic item section draws a distinction between magic armor and magical "clothing", with the latter being subdivided into types that occupy specific item slots. The implication is that magic armor doesn't occupy a slot -- it's just there.

For me, the confusion arises out of the order in which things are mentioned in Chris Sims' article. The idea of component slots is mentioned first, indicating the limits of how much a warforged can attach or embed, and where. Then the different types of attached components, including armor, are discussed. The implication seems to be that armor needs to occupy a slot, just as any other component would. However,that doesn't jive with the distinction between armor and other types of clothing presented in the magic items discussion in the PHB.

Am I the only one seeing a conflict here? Am I overanalyzing things?

(Anonymous) on June 30th, 2008 05:32 pm (UTC)
Quick question, as I have a player who uses to use/optimize all of the Warforged coolest features.

So, a Warforged can only have ONE item on each body part, and it doesn't matter if it's attached or embedded? My player cripes about this because he feels you could still have an embedded dagger or short sword and still have an attached weapon taking up the hand, such as a sword. He argues that as long as the short sword is retracted, it shouldn't interfere or take up any space with the attached weapon in question. He claims that his characters dagger would simply pop out and be coming out over the top of his character's hand (Wolverine, anyone)? Likewise, I saw no rules in the PBH about penalties for using your offhand with weapons. Maybe I missed it? Would attached or embedded components still be subject to off-hand bonuses?

What about wands? One can embed a wand in one's arm (and this doesn't take up the hand slot, which is nice). But what if that wand is in the person's off hand? Does this mean that when one uses the wand in casting spells, that it cancels out the +2 given if it's in an off hand? Arguably, I think wizards use both hands, or that they merely need to be touching a wand to tap it's power, but I have a hard time imagining the spells NOT coming out of it. Thus, I feel that an off-hand penalty should be applied. Of course, this is no fun for my player because that means he has to embed a wand in his right arm and have his embedded dagger or short sword in his left hand, suffering from off hand penalties (whatever they are).

Should I just tell him to suck it up and multiclass feat a Ranger? By the way, is that the ONLY way a character gain gain two weapon fighting without any penalties (which I cannot find in the PBH).

Thanks a bunch.

- Brendan Spence
Keith Baker[info]gloomforge on July 2nd, 2008 12:51 am (UTC)
First, bear in mind that I did NOT write the warforged Dragon article. Therefore, my opinion is just that: an opinion.

The article is quite clear: You may only have a single component, attached or embedded, in any slot.

An attached weapon takes up a hand slot.

An embedded weapon "takes up space in one hand and arm", and "slides out and locks into place." As I read this, the embedded weapon has the clear advantage of being concealable and NOT preventing you from using your hand for everyday tasks - but it DOES prevent you from having an attached weapon in that hand. It may not prevent you from holding an object in that hand, but an attached weapon is not "holding an object in the hand" - it is a component item that extends into the forearm. So in my campaign, I will not allow someone to have an attached weapon and embedded weapon on the same arm.

Likewise, I saw no rules in the PBH about penalties for using your offhand with weapons.

That's because there aren't any. You can hold a weapon or wand in either hand. On any particular action, you may use the weapon you're holding in either hand, with no penalty. As a rogue, you can have a rapier in one hand and a dagger in the other, and whenever you make an attack, you choose which to use. As a wizard, you can have an orb in one hand and a dagger in the other, same thing. It doesn't matter which hand you're holding the orb in; all that matters is that you can't use orb and dagger in the SAME attack. The only way you can do that - making an attack with the weapons held in each hand - is by using a power that allows it, like most ranger powers. So if that's what your friend wants to do, yes, multiclassing is really the way to go.


(Anonymous) on June 11th, 2009 09:27 pm (UTC)
Shield
Can a Warforge Fighter hold a Greataxe and have a Heavy Shield as an attached component on his off had and one, still get the benafit of the shield while using the Greataxe?
(Anonymous) on September 8th, 2009 11:29 pm (UTC)
Re: Shield
I know this thread is old, but ran across it on Google. Having an attached heavy shield frees the hand for stuff such as drinking potions and grabbing, etc. Just as one cannot attack with the hand that wields a light shield on the arm, one cannot attack with the hand that has an attached heavy shield on the arm.
r0k0v[info]r0k0v on May 19th, 2010 07:25 pm (UTC)
Re: Shield
Once again I seek forgiveness for posting on an old thread, but I would like to have it confirmed that Warforged can play magical classes, b/c my DM insists otherwise and I would like to play a Rogue/Sorcerer Warforged.
Keith Baker[info]gloomforge on May 19th, 2010 07:45 pm (UTC)
Warforged and Arcane Classes
There are no class restrictions for warforged. Their statistics may not be ideal for arcane classes, but by the rules as written, warforged can be any class you want.
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